what do trackers offer?

[idontsnipe Profile]

trackers just seem really popular in the breakcore scene, much more-so than in jungle (what's left) or dnb. i am curious how much of that is related to image and how much is actually related to the music.

i've only recently started getting into breakcore, having been into dnb, jungle and hip-hop most of my life. i started off making beats using hardware, and then moved onto some analog synths and drum machines. i now have moved totally to software using reason 4, and the only hardware i have left is my machinedrum and my mpc.

the only 2 sequencers i've used extensively are reason and fruity loops. i've never used trackers but have tried the renoise demo. i am actually interested in this and would like to know what are the real technical advantages of operating a tracker (such as renoise) over a more traditional sequencer?

do people who use renoise use it standalone (obviously with some plugs) or do you do some of the tune in renoise and then transfer over to ableton or something?

[drop_this Profile]

I do everything in renoise.

The main advantage is this; you can put unique breaks together a thousand times more easily and quickly than you can with a traditional sequencer. I've tried doing it with ableton and it is a massive headache and takes forever to rearrange a break. Mostly because you're looking at a waveform (which is pretty non-descript) but then you have to cut & paste slices of it to make something new which is really time consuming. This naturally leads to more repetitive styles like dnb/jungle etc.

In a tracker, you can slice a break up into its individual 'hits' and then assign each one to a key on your keyboard. Not only does this make creating a break as easy as typing it in, but you then have each sound assigned a sort of 'code' to make your life easier. For example, the first three hits in the amen break are; kick, kick, snare. In renoise you can create an instrument and assign each of these three to C, C# and D so in the renoise sequencer when you see;

C-4
.
C-4
.
C-4
.
C-4
C#4
.
D-4

you know exactly how it will sound.

This, for me, is the main advantage when you're supposed to be making "breakcore" - it's about the breaks right? There are lots of other advantages too, you can do cool effects really easily without using VSTs etc and achieve unique sounds (I can smell plugin breaks a mile off). Essentially you have full control which is pretty essential if you're trying to create your own sound.

[drop_this Profile]

p.s. some people like to make breaks in renoise, and then render them out to use in something else like Ableton or FL. Whatever you fancy really. Though if you're thinking of investing in renoise, I would advise you to check out the new ReWire support cos rewiring Ableton<->Renoise is a pretty lethal combination!

[rtificial Profile]

I do everything in renoise.

The main advantage is this; you can put unique breaks together a thousand times more easily and quickly than you can with a traditional sequencer. I've tried doing it with ableton and it is a massive headache and takes forever to rearrange a break. Mostly because you're looking at a waveform (which is pretty non-descript) but then you have to cut & paste slices of it to make something new which is really time consuming. This naturally leads to more repetitive styles like dnb/jungle etc.

Right clicking a sound file and selecting "slice to midi" in ableton would like to have a word with you.

[drop_this Profile]

Right clicking a sound file and selecting "slice to midi" in ableton would like to have a word with you.

Well this is terrible news. I was assuming that my original assertion was key to understanding the distinct lack of "break" effort exhibited in the majority of myspace bedroom breakcore producers' tracks.

So it really is just laziness. Oh well.

[rtificial Profile]

Right clicking a sound file and selecting "slice to midi" in ableton would like to have a word with you.

Well this is terrible news. I was assuming that my original assertion was key to understanding the distinct lack of "break" effort exhibited in the majority of myspace bedroom breakcore producers' tracks.

So it really is just laziness. Oh well.

It was a rather pain in the ass till live 7. Ever since then its been full blast and insane with what all you can do. I'm about to upgrade to 8 in a bit and it should be even more easier since the warp mode is even better.

[geigercounter120 Profile]

I do everything in renoise.

The main advantage is this; you can put unique breaks together a thousand times more easily and quickly than you can with a traditional sequencer. I've tried doing it with ableton and it is a massive headache and takes forever to rearrange a break. Mostly because you're looking at a waveform (which is pretty non-descript) but then you have to cut & paste slices of it to make something new which is really time consuming. This naturally leads to more repetitive styles like dnb/jungle etc.

In a tracker, you can slice a break up into its individual 'hits' and then assign each one to a key on your keyboard. Not only does this make creating a break as easy as typing it in, but you then have each sound assigned a sort of 'code' to make your life easier. For example, the first three hits in the amen break are; kick, kick, snare. In renoise you can create an instrument and assign each of these three to C, C# and D so in the renoise sequencer when you see;

C-4
.
C-4
.
C-4
.
C-4
C#4
.
D-4

you know exactly how it will sound.

This, for me, is the main advantage when you're supposed to be making "breakcore" - it's about the breaks right? There are lots of other advantages too, you can do cool effects really easily without using VSTs etc and achieve unique sounds (I can smell plugin breaks a mile off). Essentially you have full control which is pretty essential if you're trying to create your own sound.

i agree.

as far as i remember, renoise and other trackers (see also Buzz: sort of a mutated (& free) tracker...) also let you quickly apply effects on individual slices of breaks, making them ideal for snare rushes, stutters and pitch effects.

this isn't to say you can't do any of this in ableton, etc. but for me doing it in a tracker makes it easier to get a break project running...

[rokhausen Profile Website]

Right clicking a sound file and selecting "slice to midi" in ableton would like to have a word with you.

Well this is terrible news. I was assuming that my original assertion was key to understanding the distinct lack of "break" effort exhibited in the majority of myspace bedroom breakcore producers' tracks.

So it really is just laziness. Oh well.

It was a rather pain in the ass till live 7. Ever since then its been full blast and insane with what all you can do. I'm about to upgrade to 8 in a bit and it should be even more easier since the warp mode is even better.

hmmm i must respectfully disagree... i've been slicing breaks visually in ableton since version 4 and find it way less complicated than slicing to midi ...unless i'm going for some sort of loop-start modulation effect on a single slice in the break, then using a sampler instrument is pretty helpful. guess it's all about what you're used to doing

i also find managing relationships between time-stretching/compression and pitch a lot easier & more supported in ableton as opposed to renoise... no need to set up interpolating 09xx values or any of that... maybe i'm missing something there or have just spent way too much time with ableton, but that's probably the main reason i haven't really used a tracker or renoise for much of anything in several years

[the_machine Profile]

being a natural pessimist i never thought i'd say this : live rules!